Jesus Christ Superstar Discussion
Here is the link to the video discussion with musical videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbMMDXqD90U&list=PL60qgCKg2i3hX8U_IRhWRTBtxdgcr2fCo&index=1&t=194s
Here are the notes that we did the discussion from and at the bottom you will find discussion notes we never got to.
Jesus Christ Superstar
Preface: 7:30-7:40
Greetings and prayer
Introduction to Jesus Christ Superstar
The last few days of Jesus’ life
Judas’ perspective - may not be as obvious, but Tim Rice the writer said later that was his intent
Background of its creation:
The “human” Jesus (Red Letter Bible)
“You’ve begun to matter more than the things you say”
HIstorical criticism
“Strip away the myth from the man”
Possibly culturally influenced by the Gospel of Mary, but unlikely the gospel of Judas - though Tim Rice probably did not read them
Not written by Judas or Mary - Written far later than either of them lived - centuries later
In the gospel of Mary, she was closer to Jesus than anyone else
In the gospel of Judas, Jesus tells Judas that he would be raised above everyone else
Both present some ideas that contradict the Bible - probably written by anti-Christian sects
Inspired a movement to capture their story
Hippie and counterculture movement
The emotional, secular, fleshing-out of the Biblical narrative: Jesus, Judas and Mary Magdalene
Judas
Passages about Judas:
Anointing - one gospel (John 12:1-8) mentions Judas otherwise it is all the disciples
Managed and stole from the purse
Conversation with religious leaders (Matthew 26:14-16) “What are you willing to give me to betray him to you?” Luke 22:3 - Satan entered Judas
Last Supper - dipping the bread - go and do what you must do - satan took control of him (John 13:26)
(Matthew 26:24-25, Mark, Luke)“Woe to the man who betrays the Son of Man, for it would be better if he was never born”
“Surely, you don’t mean me”
Betrayal - Rabbi-kiss (Matthew 26:47-50) Jesus “Do what you came for friend”
Death - (Matthew 27:1-10) “I have sinned for I have betrayed innocent blood”
Tell them to watch out for how the staging tells us different things about the story and it’s characters.
2. Heaven On Their Minds (1973 version and 2000 version ) 7:40 - 7:55
Judas the “Untrustworthy” narrator - steps out to look in
Right hand man
My mind is clearer now - I can see
Can he?
Judas as a moderate and rationalist, versus the radicalism of Jesus
Judas’ motivation
Fear - Rome, the restlessness of the crowd
Thinks he knows where it will go if he doesn’t do something
Disillusionment/doubt - sour
Believes Christ is in an illusion
Presents it like he wants to hold onto the good of Christ, but often contradicts that
Stayed a carpenter
Convince Jesus?
The two versions (Blocking changes a lot - tells us about the story, Jesus, Judas, their relationship etc.)
Distance vs. direct appeal
Communal Christ vs. Silent Christ
Breaking the fourth wall
13. Damned For All Time ( 2000 version ) 7:55 - 8:05
Who is leading Judas to betray Jesus?
“I really don’t come here of my own accord” x3
Jesus wants this too
What are Judas’ motivations?
“Not thinking of my own reward” x3
“I saw - Jesus can’t control it” - sees himself as a prophet
Damned?
Acting as it is a really battle (stagnant/unified/forceful/imposing religious leaders vs. hyper/struggling Judas)
21. Judas’ Death ( 1973 version ) 8:05-8:15
Reversal of intent - “I’d sell out the nation”
All about him
No mention of Judas’ Sin compared to the gospel quote
Contrast between the two songs - Blaming vs. reaching
Judas denies the extraordinariness of Jesus, but cannot relinquish his attraction to him (paradox) -
Jesus new (1st verse) and now Judas says God new all along
Fear and Love - same words but a contrast to the challenge Mary experienced
Was Judas’ act free choice?
God foretold
Blaming God
Why Judas? How does free will play into this, even in the way this story is told?
How has God murdered Him? What is the actual result? He murders himself.
Once again watch the two versions and watch for the differences and what they say about Judas, Jesus and reality
23. Superstar ( 1973 and 2000 version) 8:15-8:30
Compare versions
Red vs. white (black/red vs. white angels?)
witness/tormenter of Christ vs. distance and separation
2000 Music video - Is this how Judas would have done it?
1973 - Jesus transformed - Judas comes down on the cross - dancing parallel with Simon the Zealot
Judas’ perspective
No understanding, No plan, no control, wrong time, wrong place, wrong method
Is this true?
Judas’ questioning: Who was he and what was the point of Christ’s death? Is this really the point of this song? (Don’t you get me wrong)
The very questioning tells us a lot about Judas’ perspective
Judas seemed to confess earlier on that it was God and Christ’s plan, but he still asks again
Record Breaker! (Is this Judas’ one redeeming vision of it?)
Judas never saw the resurrection and ended his life by blaming God
Staging determines a lot
Mary Magdalene
Passages about Mary:
Gregory the great - conflated all of the Marys that weren’t Jesus’ mother
Mary and Martha? In Bethany for anointing - is this Mary Magdalene? - probably not
Anointing Jesus’ feet (different versions in the other gospels) - Luke 7:36-39 (sinful woman washing with tears) - John 12:1 - Mary is the one (3 different homes though) - Luke is much earlier in the gospel story
At the cross Mark 15:40 (not all the gospels)
Cared for Christ’s body (not all)
At the resurrection (all)
Healed of 7 demons (Mark 16:9- extra)
11/12. Don’t Know How to Love Him (1973) 8:30-8:40
How we are like Mary and Judas: denying Jesus’ unconditional love, betraying Jesus, “moderating” Jesus’ message
Intimacy and closeness between Jesus and Mary (Is this really a problem? Does this have to predetermine a romantic relationship?) The woman who washes Jesus with her tears and the ointment are intimate acts - Jesus disappearing into world fickle comforts might be a bigger problem though
Mary’s struggle
I don’t know how to love him - Do we know how to love?
I have been changed, I seem like someone else - being changed by Christ’s love
Why is Jesus’ love scary, why is he scary? Why are we scared to love him? Why would she run away?
Jesus
⅞. Simon Zealotes / Poor Jerusalem (1973 and 2000) 8:40-8:55 - for the 2000, we will only show the intro
What is zealousness - Hunger vs. fighting/defending/victory
What don’t they understand? Power? Glory?
Why would they close their eyes?
Conquering death - closest hint at resurrection in the whole musical
How does this not fit with the others' zealousness?
Desire to be on Christ’s side, find salvation vs. Rome - Judas view as a craze?
Difference between Jesus mourning over Jerusalem in Scripture - the prophets, who Jesus is and the destruction that will come later 70 AD
Jerusalem, Jerusalem! Your people have killed the prophets and have stoned the messengers who were sent to you. I have often wanted to gather your people, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings. But you wouldn’t let me (Matthew 23:37)
In Scripture they do try to make Jesus king and there does seem to be a hunger for him both in Scripture and historically
Zealousness there was Israelite rebellions historically - no mention of God’s Kingdom in the musical
10. The Temple / Lepers (1973) 8:55-9:05
Stagings turn the temple courts into a place that sells all vice (modern consumer market and economy), but Scripture actually presents a more nuanced approach as what they sell is sacrifices, money changers etc. The nuanced evil, even when we think we are doing right is an important learning
Jesus doesn’t seem to tell them to get out in Scripture though
Jesus is overwhelmed by those seeking healing - we never actually see anyone healed in the musical - in Scripture there are moments Jesus can’t heal because of disbelief and he does often leave to find time for prayer, but it really does not present anything like this - but it does often mention that others don’t like the large crowds around Jesus (Jesus’ family, the disciples, the pharisees)
Staging that presents good theology - Mary is both in the group of sick and the accusers as are probably all the others
Not obvious that God is slow to anger in this musical, but Tim is quoted as saying that he wants to capture the drama, so we have to understand that is part of his intent
Comment on 15. Last Supper
The Apostles - no note of the work the apostles will do - what do the gospels mean to them at this point? - privileged? - pool of wine, trials are yet to come, Don’t disturb, I can see
Jesus’ shame/frustration/anger with disciples, it is true that the disciples are slow to learn, but Jesus showed himself to be more than patient continuously in Scripture
Judas has a yelling match with Jesus that doesn’t happen in Scriptures - Unlikely that Jesus wouldn’t listen from Scriptures - Does he care why? God wants to redirect good intentions to become good results too
16. Gethsemane (1973) 9:05-9:20
The struggle is real!
The musical as it is from the perspective of Judas has removed all hope, all redemption and all reasons for Jesus’ death so what we are left with is a human struggling with God’s call on his life as he blindly follows
What are some of the reasons?
Resurrection, forgiveness of sins, true love and acceptance, adoption, ascension, establishing of God’s Kingdom, showing us the reality of our sins (distance, suffering, death), restoration of relationship, Trinity
I don’t have a problem with Jesus struggling at this moment - Scriptures say that he sweat blood (Luke), but my biggest problem is that he seems to have no relationship with God and his lack of knowledge. It is only a one sided conversation - yes Scripture can present this one sidedness at times, but there are angels (in this moment too - Luke)), God’s voice, a confidence, a knowledge and more that we also see throughout Scripture - without these why does Jesus know he has to die?
Look at the actual words Jesus uses in Scripture All start with Father - Matthew “if it is possible”, Mark “All things are possible to you God”, Luke “If it is your will, you can” - “Yet not my will but yours be done”
Before I change my mind - like Jesus is so changeable - for this struggle to happen Jesus doesn’t need to have lost inspiration or direction
Stuff We didn’t have time for:
Extra if time: Play the 2000 Gethsemene and talk about the performers challenge
Playing the emotion
The as if
Living in the moment
Improving on Stillness
Why does the musical end with 24. Death? Is this the end of the story?
¾. What’s the Buzz / Everything’s Alright (2000 version) 8:30-8:45
Jesus’ response to the disciples a distortion of the Do not worry passage - words are put in Mary’s mouth - except they are about disappearing
Intimacy between Jesus and Mary (Is this really a problem? Does this have to predetermine a romantic relationship?) The woman who washes Jesus with her tears and the ointment are intimate acts - Jesus disappearing into world fickle comforts might be a bigger problem though
Jesus’ inconsistency - righteousness and yet hung out with tax collectors, prostitutes etc.
Jesus insults the poor
“If your slate is clean - then you can throw stones” - those without sin cast the first stone - noone is left to condemn you, neither do I, go and sin no more
Other Discussion Points
Biblical Textual Criticism
It is the last week of Jesus’ life out of order
How are the 12 disciples different from the 70 or the crowd following Jesus - Yet in the musical they are combined
The battle was different then violence (no battle with Religious leaders - not with flesh and blood), not understanding
In the Bible Jesus heals many - At the end of John’s Gospel, he mentions too many stories of Jesus - There is one section where Jesus is not able to heal because of unbelief
In the Bible the High Priest knows it is for many that he must kill Jesus
In the musical is Judas being urged to do it - by God or by Satan
What was Jesus’ relationship with Judas? sympathetic, close friends? What was Judas’ experiences? fear for Israel, doubt (no theft, no Satan in the musical)? - How is it different in the musical from the bible?
Why does the musical remove sin, forgiveness or the Old Testament? It talks a lot about these in the Gospels
Jesus is presented in the Bible as God and Man? Does the musical attempt to show this?
How is Pilate different? In the musical, why is there a disconnect between his dream and the court? What is different between this and the Bible? - no private conversation - Why does Pilate say and do what he does? public, needing to display authority, weakness?
